Who do you think is the best Sensei in Naruto?

[Vincent1875]

The difference between your analogy and Nagato is that writing suicidal things in a journal is an outward sign for the readers. Nagato had nothing of the sort. Therefore it becomes erroneous to assume that he was as messed up as Sasuke from that event as there's nothing to support it. It's not a matter of me ignoring an actual reason. It's a matter of me dismissing speculation that's unsupported by what we see.

So ignoring the unhealthy obsession that he sells his soul to the devil for a better chance at fulfilling? Why would we do that? There's also the fact that Sasuke was repressing memories. Besides it wasn't just Itachi that led to Sasuke's defection. Orochimaru's cursed seal was affecting his mind for one. Kakashi's sealing jutsu relied on Sasuke's confidence and willpower. Sasuke threw everything he had at Gaara and could barely slow him down. Then Naruto comes in and stalemates him in a battle above Sasuke's level. Then his brother shows up and is only interested in Naruto. He gets owned by Itachi, his battle on the hospital shows Naruto's new jutsu did more damage than his, and he then gets owned by the sound 4. It looked to him like his training in Konoha wasn't doing him much good.

Either way you look at it the timing is important so the rest of the discussion is kind of irrelevant. You simply threw a rock in a large river. At most you just made it detour. In my scenario(one) Nagato flipped despite Jiraiya fully training him. It means Jiraiya's teachings didn't hold up. In your scenario(two) Jiraiya failed to deal with Nagato's festering anger and resentment despite the three years he had to train him. Kakashi on the other hand had only a small fraction of the time that Jiraiya had to do anything. To use another analogy it's like we're comparing two houses. Guy one spent three years building his while guy two only got a few months. House one was finished but collapsed. House two was never finished in the first place. It makes perfect sense for me to say that guy two has a better defense for why his house sucks.

[theOrator]

Originally Posted by Vincent1875

The difference between your analogy and Nagato is that writing suicidal things in a journal is an outward sign for the readers. Nagato had nothing of the sort. Therefore it becomes erroneous to assume that he was as messed up as Sasuke from that event as there's nothing to support it. It's not a matter of me ignoring an actual reason. It's a matter of me dismissing speculation that's unsupported by what we see.

So ignoring the unhealthy obsession that he sells his soul to the devil for a better chance at fulfilling? Why would we do that? There's also the fact that Sasuke was repressing memories. Besides it wasn't just Itachi that led to Sasuke's defection. Orochimaru's cursed seal was affecting his mind for one. Kakashi's sealing jutsu relied on Sasuke's confidence and willpower. Sasuke threw everything he had at Gaara and could barely slow him down. Then Naruto comes in and stalemates him in a battle above Sasuke's level. Then his brother shows up and is only interested in Naruto. He gets owned by Itachi, his battle on the hospital shows Naruto's new jutsu did more damage than his, and he then gets owned by the sound 4. It looked to him like his training in Konoha wasn't doing him much good.

Either way you look at it the timing is important so the rest of the discussion is kind of irrelevant. You simply threw a rock in a large river. At most you just made it detour. In my scenario(one) Nagato flipped despite Jiraiya fully training him. It means Jiraiya's teachings didn't hold up. In your scenario(two) Jiraiya failed to deal with Nagato's festering anger and resentment despite the three years he had to train him. Kakashi on the other hand had only a small fraction of the time that Jiraiya had to do anything. To use another analogy it's like we're comparing two houses. Guy one spent three years building his while guy two only got a few months. House one was finished but collapsed. House two was never finished in the first place. It makes perfect sense for me to say that guy two has a better defense for why his house sucks.

WTF are you talking about, the journal isn't seen by the readers? You completely mistook the analogy entirely, and what's worse is you seem to be doing it on purpose. Tell me, how is it speculation to suggest that a kid who was barely into his teens when he saw his family murdered, as well as the citizens around him; who was constantly surrounded by war and death between nations that didn't involve his own, I might add, was any less messed up inside than a boy who only witnessed the aftermath of his family and 1 clan dead? For you to assume that one boy could see what he saw and turn out relatively fine, while another was just hell-bent on vengeance from the beginning, that's erroneous and not mention absurd.

Especially to write it off as speculation, when really all you're doing is speculating as well. You can't tell, with certainty, Nagato's state of mind or how those past events affected him anymore than I can. Heck, he even states in his revealing his past to Naruto that his parents death was one of two events that lead to him becoming the way he turned out. Neither event which, by the way, had anything to do with Jiraiya nor did Jiraiya even have any knowledge of them. So to say he wasn't as good of teacher because of events that didn't involve him is also erroneous. Especially when you conveniently ignore the fact that before Yahiko's death, he was following Jiraiya's teachings exactly to the letter by protecting his friends and his nation.

You see, your whole point becomes moot when you ignore the entire picture in order to focus on, and twist, one particular event in order to prove your point. I didn't just throw a rock in that river, it was wrapped in a wired explosive device that just blew your entire argument away.

[Calhoun720]

Omg!?!

[-Omega-]

Originally Posted by Calhoun720

Omg!?!

Are you amazed?

[Calhoun720]

Originally Posted by -Omega-

Are you amazed?

That I am. I shouldn't be b/c I've seen it before. But its been a long time.

[theOrator]

A nice welcome back present for you Cal.

[Calhoun720]

Originally Posted by theOrator

A nice welcome back present for you Cal.

Thanks, I've had on off day and this helped right things

I'm in full roflcopter mode over here.

[amazingm13]

pervy sage ftw lol but jairya taught all the greats and they all seemed to think of him as a father so i will say he is the best imo

[-Omega-]

Originally Posted by amazingm13

pervy sage ftw lol but jairya taught all the greats and they all seemed to think of him as a father so i will say he is the best imo

Happy Father's Day.

Spoiler

[Calhoun720]

Jiraiya's death still saddens me a bit when I see the end of that fight...

I agree, Jiraiya first. Then for me Kakashi and the Third is a tossup. Reason being Kakashi trained the main characters so we got to see his influence alot more than obviously we did the Third. However, the Third was sensei for the "sannin" amongst other indirect things. His influence stuck with Jiraiya and Tsunade in a major way. Which influenced the way they trained their pupils and so on.