Which Akatsuki member do you think is Overrated? (Possible spoilers)

[Vincent1875]

Originally Posted by theOrator

Well, no, of course you're not going to have the same chances of getting hit if you know what to look for. Lol, my bad, I should've been specific. No, the discussion, as I recall, stems from Vincent1875's views that if you know a person's technique, then they become less dangerous (ex: Hidan). My counter opinion is that having that information may lessen your chances of getting struck by it, but that in no way makes the other person less dangerous.

And Vince, I agree with your point regarding the advent of new technologies like stealth and what not. I also agree with your points about the ways you could counter Hidan's curse technique. However, what you don't seem to realize is that not everyone is going take those measures. After all, Shikamaru had ample information regarding Hidan's curse technique, yet when he confronted him again, he wore no armor (armor only provides so much protection, and unless you wear a full body suit of metal, there are still openings to exploit), he hadn't done any training to increase the speed of his movements, etc. Destroying his circle could work, but by then you'll have been caught in his curses' affects (as he only draws it after he's taken blood), and also you'll have to risk getting in close in order to do it, in which case you run into his weapon.

And that's assuming he lets you get in that close. You could use a kunai with an exploding tag or jutsu, but you risk dealing yourself any damage that he suffers from it. Making so that he can't draw a circle is an option, but unless you have some sort of binding technique like Shikamaru or Ino (which I believe Shikamaru tried and Hidan was able to figure out its weaknesses), you'll have to get in close to incapacitate him otherwise. So overall, while having information on the technique does give you slight advantages, it doesn't reduce the amount of danger the opponent possesses.

I said Hidan becomes much less dangerous not everyone. Shikamaru had a technique that made it so Hidan couldn't move. He was smart enough to adapt it to the situation. Wearing armor(Kidomaru, Gaara, and Kimimaro) will be able to stop him from blood entirely, making it so he can't draw a circle(keep attacking him, flooding battlefield(like Gaara, Jiraiya, and Kisame)) will easily work. He has drawn the circle before he drew some blood before making destroying it possible(Tenten(with explosive notes), Deidara, Kisame, Jiraiya, Sakura, Yamoto, and pretty much anyone with a good handle on earth jutsu and some skill). Having information on his techniques makes him a much less dangerous person to anyone with the information that can use it. Most notable ninja can do one of the things I named to circumvent Hidan's technique. There's also the offensive part of the fight that might not even give Hidan a chance to attack you.

[Eclipse :)]

I've voted for Konan, she doesn't seem very strong and doesn't do anything but stay with Nagato.

[theOrator]

Originally Posted by Vincent1875

I said Hidan becomes much less dangerous not everyone. Shikamaru had a technique that made it so Hidan couldn't move. He was smart enough to adapt it to the situation. Wearing armor(Kidomaru, Gaara, and Kimimaro) will be able to stop him from blood entirely, making it so he can't draw a circle(keep attacking him, flooding battlefield(like Gaara, Jiraiya, and Kisame)) will easily work. He has drawn the circle before he drew some blood before making destroying it possible(Tenten(with explosive notes), Deidara, Kisame, Jiraiya, Sakura, Yamoto, and pretty much anyone with a good handle on earth jutsu and some skill). Having information on his techniques makes him a much less dangerous person to anyone with the information that can use it. Most notable ninja can do one of the things I named to circumvent Hidan's technique. There's also the offensive part of the fight that might not even give Hidan a chance to attack you.

I know you were talking about Hidan, I was using the term opponent to refer to him in this context. Almost all of the ways you've mentioned are ones I already pointed out flaws in my last posting. Gaara's armor is made of sand, anything with a decent amount of force behind it could crack it and draw blood. The same applies for Kidomaru, as Neji showed, and Kimimaro's bones can't be drawn from every part of his body at once(the laws of biology would have to apply somewhere). As for the offensive part of a fight, if he can stand toe to toe with some of the most capable fighters in the show (Shikamaru, Asuma) as well as the two-tailed Jinchuuriki in her transformed stage, then I don't think he'll have too much trouble against other ninjas.

[Urary]

If you are aware of Hidan's abilities and you are a ninja with exceptional skill, you could probably take him.

[toad moad]

jus gota cut off a couple limbs while Kakuzu isn't there and not get a scratch.

[Vincent1875]

Originally Posted by theOrator

I know you were talking about Hidan, I was using the term opponent to refer to him in this context. Almost all of the ways you've mentioned are ones I already pointed out flaws in my last posting. Gaara's armor is made of sand, anything with a decent amount of force behind it could crack it and draw blood. The same applies for Kidomaru, as Neji showed, and Kimimaro's bones can't be drawn from every part of his body at once(the laws of biology would have to apply somewhere). As for the offensive part of a fight, if he can stand toe to toe with some of the most capable fighters in the show (Shikamaru, Asuma) as well as the two-tailed Jinchuuriki in her transformed stage, then I don't think he'll have too much trouble against other ninjas.

You pointed out "flaws" in half of them not most. You don't have to get close to destroy Hidan's circle and he has drawn it before getting blood(You could be Sakura and destroy the ground). You don't have to have an immobilizing tech to stop him from drawing a circle(You could change the battlefield like Gaara or Kisame can do. He can't draw a circle if the "ground" moves. Hidan also only found out Shikamaru's jutsu after being caught in it multiple times). Gaara's sand is not soft sand. I'm sure if he was using the armor of sand as a primary defense instead of a secondary one it would be thicker and harder to crack. Kidomaru's armor was as hard as metal and it can't be said(for sure) that Neji destroyed his armor because Kidomaru showed no signs of damage. Kidomaru could have broke it himself. Even if Neji did break it he was using jyuuken which injects chakra. Things made from chakra can be destroyed like that. Hidan can't do that. Kimimaro was able to resist the pressure of being crushed by Gaara. He would have had to have his entire body covered in his armor to resist being crushed. He doesn't even need to be fully armored. Hidan's weapon isn't the most maneuverable thing in the world. A few bones in key places would significantly reduce where Hidan's weapon can touch skin. That being said only the armor flaw is valid in a way, but it would still greatly reduce the chance of him drawing blood.

Just because they're good doesn't mean they're some of the most capable. I don't think they fall into the top twenty. Hidan actually had to be revived after fighting those two so I don't know if I'd call it toe to toe. He also had Kakuzu with him during the fight with the 2 tails. Him fighting people like the puppeteers or Gaara doesn't give him a chance to attack.

[theOrator]

Ok, Vincent, I can see you and I are just going to continue to disagree on this. I could continue to point out the flaws in your theory and viewpoints (like the fact you neglected to mention that Hidan was in a 2 on 1 situation when he received the injury you mentioned, or that he has always used blood to draw a circle, although the time against Asuma, it was his blood), or even cite situations from other anime where this same scenario has occurred and my words have been proven true (one anime which you are a fan of as well, in fact). But instead of just going back and forth 10 more pages like we've done in our last discussions, I'll simply end it with a post from Eddy that you agreed with a while back.

It's all speculation unless the author says so anyway

So there you go, you have your opinion, and I have mine, but as the quote above says, it's all speculation unless stated otherwise by Kishimoto.

[Vincent1875]

I mentioned after fighting those 2 and that event was something you mentioned. It still doesn't make Hidan, Shika, or Asuma some of the most capable fighters. I was under the impression that Hidan almost always uses his own blood to draw the circle. If his opponent is bleeding that much he probably doesn't need the jutsu to finish them.

There doesn't even seem to be an argument. Hidan's jutsu is very specific and there are plenty of ways around it. All you've done is say the ways around it aren't perfect. It doesn't change the fact of them being there and if you know Hidan's ability and are a good ninja you're likely to be able to do at least one of the things I named. I highly doubt Asuma would have died like that if he hadn't went into the fight ignorant. As a matter of fact Hidan would have just been taken out because they'd have cut his head off. That's proof right there of Hidan being much more dangerous because of ignorance.

I'd also like to point out me saying that at least 5 pages before Eddy.

[theOrator]

In case you forgot, Hidan was ambushed by them and stabbed, and was beheaded later by Asuma when Shikamaru intervened, and he still managed to kill him. Everyone whose either read the manga or watched the anime knows that Asuma couldn't even touch Hidan without Shikamaru's interference, so you're last point in your post proves nothing. Also, my whole argument hasn't been about just pointing out the flaws in the counters you mentioned, even though yours has simply been about pointing out the flaws in Hidan's technique. But since you seem to be unable to leave well enough alone, I'll present a scenario from an anime I know you and I are both fans of that is exactly like this one.

Your argument has been that Hidan is less dangerous if you are a ninja of sufficient skill and has knowledge of his technique, right? Then how about this:

Spoiler

In vol. 53 of the Hajime no Ippo manga, Ippo has match against a fighter named Sawamura Ryuuhei, who was regarded as a brilliant counter-punch specialist. He had seen Ippo's Dempsey roll technique, and had figured out its weakness in that its rhythm was predictable. He even cautioned Ippo that should he use it, Ippo would be defeated, and referred to it as a "clumsy technique". Yet he still not only lost the fight w/ Ippo, but was hospitalized by that very same technique. You can argue against this, but this is a clear indication that just because you know the mechanics of a technique, doesn't mean you're opponent is less dangerous or no longer poses a significant threat. Therefore, it contradicts your argument.

Read my last post, Vince, it's all speculation unless Kishimoto states otherwise, as you and Eddy said before. So why are you still talking about it? Your whole argument has been speculation, because you can't really prove it by the standard that you and Eddy agreed on. It's merely your opinion, and I'm willing to leave you w/ that, so let it go.

[Vincent1875]

My last point proves that if they had known about Hidan he wouldn't have gotten the chance to get Asuma's blood because he'd be out of the fight. Kakuzu could have revived Hidan but it they knew that if was possible I doubt they'd let him. Had they known stabbing him wouldn't kill him they'd have beheaded him during the ambush and destroyed his body instead of the ineffective/counterproductive thing they did do. That clearly proves Hidan being much more dangerous because of a lack of knowledge from an author written source so saying it's speculation doesn't really apply.

Your argument is flawed because being less dangerous doesn't make you not dangerous. Air bags and seat belts make car accidents far less dangerous but they can and do still kill people.