Naruto Manga Discussion Thread 2: It's a Wonderful Sasuke

[Stone-Free]

Naruto goes without saying. Regardless of how well their social life in Konoha was with civilians, the fact remains that they were relocated, observed and regarded as the threat by officials without confirmation of it being a single Uchiha or the whole and there's nothing fair about that.

[Mreaper]

True, but is the unfairness enough to plan a coup that could potentially throw the entire world into chaos? Did they ever try a peaceful alternative?

[Stone-Free]

We're not discussing what should and shouldn't have been done. Ora and Kanna are on that. We're discussing prejudice.

[Mreaper]

Sure, but we entered into it via negotiations, it's relevant.
So anyway, ok, a few people are treating you unfairly but not exactly badly because they suspact one of you might have had a hand in the disaster that almost wiped out the village. Everyone else treats you like awesome people.
Sure it's prejudiced of the leaders for suspecting the Uchiha, but not unfounded. They ARE the only ones with the means to control Kurama after all.
It's still not a lot of prejudice to endure. The Uchiha part of town was even pretty a nice place.

[Stone-Free]

No, it wasn't unfounded; not that I care. Besides, the relocation place can be peachy but being relocated and observed by your country officials isn't a small prejudice. Logical, but not something taken lightly.

[narusasu1]

everything is Tobi's fault anyway so I just hope he dies

[Stone-Free]

I hope he controls everyone.

[theOrator]

Originally Posted by Mreaper

Prejudice and oppression? Really? I mean, sure, the higher-ups suspected them of having a hand in the Kyuubi attack and moved them away from the center of the village, and the police force was supposedly(Tobi's the source after all) a means of keeping tabs on them, but to the general public they were the elite, Konoha's finest clan and protectors of public order.
The only thing hurt was their pride.

I agree w/ Mreaper on this, especially since Nobi is the one who has told the entire story. If we're to hold skepticism on his words of Konoha having no other choice based on him lying about Kurama's attack on the village, then why not hold into question whether or not he was telling the truth regarding the Uchiha's side of the negotiations? Heck, we don't even know if they were trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement.

Originally Posted by Mreaper

Quite a bit I'd say. You're still greeted nicely, people show you respect, and your kids don't get bullied by other kids for being "those people."
You know who suffered prejudice? Naruto. An entire village just hated his guts.

Not just him, Gaara, and just about any jinchuuriki suffered prejudice and discrimination. The Uchiha suffered no such ill treatment.

[kannazuki]

Mreaper, I remembered why I thought the leaders (or at least Danzou) would be aware of Tobi's involvement. This little "long time no see" between the two, from chapter 474 (though not conclusive, you must admit it is highly suggestive):

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Mreaper

Prejudice and oppression? Really? I mean, sure, the higher-ups suspected them of having a hand in the Kyuubi attack and moved them away from the center of the village, and the police force was supposedly(Tobi's the source after all) a means of keeping tabs on them, but to the general public they were the elite, Konoha's finest clan and protectors of public order.
The only thing hurt was their pride.

Yeah, really.

If you believe Tobi, the Uchiha experienced further discrimination beyond their loss of land and disenfranchisement, as if that alone wasn't bad enough ("then the discrimination began"), and "in the end, no one trusted the Uchiha" (see image below for both quotes).

Evidently running the police force didn't do much to uphold their image if "no one" trusts them anyway. They may have (ironically) gotten their good name back AFTER the slaughter, but before it, they don't appear to have been treated even as equals, let alone the respect and reverence due to a founding clan of the village.

Chapter 399:

Spoiler

Originally Posted by Mreaper

Quite a bit I'd say. You're still greeted nicely, people show you respect, and your kids don't get bullied by other kids for being "those people."
You know who suffered prejudice? Naruto. An entire village just hated his guts.

How do you know the Uchiha weren't mistreated? According to Tobi at least, they did in fact experience prejudice, and for the kids it would likely have been very similar to what Naruto experienced.

Originally Posted by Mreaper

Sure it's prejudiced of the leaders for suspecting the Uchiha, but not unfounded. They ARE the only ones with the means to control Kurama after all.
It's still not a lot of prejudice to endure. The Uchiha part of town was even pretty a nice place.

This sounds essentially like an equivalent to racial profiling. :/

You consider forced relocation (to a smaller parcel of land in a less favourable location-- essentially a demotion highly visible to the rest of society) and no one trusting you "not a lot of prejudice to endure?"

Originally Posted by theOrator

I agree w/ Mreaper on this, especially since Nobi is the one who has told the entire story. If we're to hold skepticism on his words of Konoha having no other choice based on him lying about Kurama's attack on the village, then why not hold into question whether or not he was telling the truth regarding the Uchiha's side of the negotiations? Heck, we don't even know if they were trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement.

Well we can't pick and choose. I'm happy to acknowledge the possibility he may be exaggerating or flat out lying about the prejudice thing, but then you guys shouldn't argue genocide was "justified" based on his words, as if they're the gospel truth.

Not just him, Gaara, and just about any jinchuuriki suffered prejudice and discrimination. The Uchiha suffered no such ill treatment.

Again, depends on whether you believe Tobi. But I can't imagine the Uchiha wanting to stage a coup for no reason at all. If they were that power-hungry and cared so little about peace, Madara wouldn't have been disowned by them and stripped of his title as clan leader.

[narusasu1]

agrees with Kanna

@Stone Tobi controlling everyone would be boring