Naruto Manga Discussion Thread 2: It's a Wonderful Sasuke

[MightySasuke]

Originally Posted by tengu

Wait just a second I hope I got that wrong but do you say that if someone is as you put it "corrupted" he or she should not be punished?
Said corruption as you say it is made by his environments in which he was raised sure, in his case slaughtering of his kin,the whole story with Itachi etc, but if should not punish crimes of criminals because they were shaped to be criminals by society/environment you could not hold any person responsible for anything since every human psychology is shaped by its genes and the environment he or she grows up in.

Of course not you are blowing it out proportion. Not every criminal is insane. Some do it for pleasure or because they simply can: Madara, Tobi, Kisame, Danzo, Orochimaru,… The list is long.

[tengu]

Originally Posted by MightySasuke

Of course not you are blowing it out proportion. Not every criminal is insane. Some do it for pleasure or because they simply can: Madara, Tobi, Kisame, Danzo, Orochimaru,… The list is long.

Okay and where exactly do you see the difference in Sasuke and the other villians/corrupted people(to make it short)?

I mean the only difference I see is a huge trauma he had and said trauma led with help of environment, in this case Tobi,Oro etc. to his twisted sense of justice.
At least in my eyes that does not exactly fit into insanity/madness and even assuming it would, still it is no excuse to not being held responsible for your actions.

[MightySasuke]

Originally Posted by tengu

Okay and where exactly do you see the difference in Sasuke and the other villians/corrupted people(to make it short)?

I mean the only difference I see is a huge trauma he had and said trauma led with help of environment, in this case Tobi,Oro etc. to his twisted sense of justice.
At least in my eyes that does not exactly fit into insanity/madness and even assuming it would, still it is no excuse to not being held responsible for your actions.

I mention them already. Go back and re-read.

[tengu]

Originally Posted by MightySasuke

I mention them already. Go back and re-read.

Well I read most of your posts and at least as far as I got it, it all came done to the statements of Insanity/Madness/Corruption of Sasuke coupled with the Genocide Itachi initiated.

[MightySasuke]

Kishimoto has gone to the extreme to illustrate Sasuke’s corrupted state; at this point, it should be plain obvious: the insane laugh, the poor choice of words, the psychotic look, even the intent to kill his old teammates who once he cared for.

These are all symptoms he did not had when he was in team 7, for he was oblivious to the truth. He went insane when he was told the "truth" by Tobi and partially by Itachi (and later by Danzo). Then he went on a sprint of "revenge" against Konoha.

[mariorive24]

In this case, Sasuke's intentions are premeditated, planned, which means he can think rationally, he is not out of his mind.
Apparently, he can also see the difference between bad and good. He said he was going to kill even the innocents.

Sasuke may be traumatized and even have some psychological problems but nothing that can exempt him of blame, imo.

[kannazuki]

Originally Posted by MightySasuke

Absolutely wrong! Kishimoto has gone to the extreme to illustrate Sasuke’s corrupted state; at this point, it should be plain obvious: the insane laugh, the poor choice of words, the psychotic look, even the intent to kill his old teammates who once he cared for. In real or fictional dimension, the laws of basic morality hold. An insane person who errs/sins is not subject to morality laws; instead, the person is treated in hope of rehabilitation.

So the insane are exempt from laws of "morality," yet somehow can simultaneously have the moral judgment necessary to seek "justice?" Uh huh. I see...

I hardly think Sasuke getting carried away and laughing maniacally in one scene means a whole lot other than Kishi underscoring how twisted he's becoming with self-consuming hatred, seeing as the corrupting influence of such hatred is a major theme Kishi's only been building on for the entirety of the series. As tengu pointed out, being "corrupted" by others is no more an excuse for his behaviour than it is for any criminal with a rough background.

To discount that Sasuke is acting in his right mind or try to argue that his actions are somehow "just" is to discount Kishi's message about the corrupting influence of hatred (a typical one for shounen); the attempts by Kakashi to stop Sasuke from going down that path; and the attempts by Jiraiya to do the same with Orochimaru. Tobi is characterized as the final incarnation one arrives at while following that path of hatred. If you just say all of these people are "insane," and separate the morality from their actions, we aren't left with much of a story here, and Kishi's message about striving for peace via diplomacy gets watered down, big-time.

Do not make me repeat myself over and over again: Sasuke was corrupted into insanity; one cannot hold an insane person accountable, for it is immoral. From an open-minded perspective, I do not justify Sasuke’s intention, but I understand a corrupted person holds little to no guilt of his or her actions.


Close-mindedness at its best!

Don't blame me for your failure to come up with anything other than tortured logic to support what you have to say. You have yet to show a consistent pattern indicating mental illness on Sasuke's part. "Look how crazy he acts in that scene" doesn't cut it. I'd also like to know how Kishi's moral message is supposed to impact the reader/viewer if the person in need of redemption isn't even capable of being held responsible for his actions.

And now I'm "closed-minded" because I disagree with you? lol...

[Vincent1875]

All this whining is going to ruin my ability to enjoy Sasuke's rampaging. Sasuke may be a bit insane but he's not that insane.

[0ldman]

Why didn't kishi show madara too being stop? Any ideas

[Mreaper]

Saving it for next chap maybe?