How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. - AnimeCrazy.net Forums

Whewt22 · 08-13-2008, 02:33 AM

May contain spoilers.
Our first subject of discussion is the Hogyoku.

Balling continue here!

Balling like a fool · 08-13-2008, 02:36 AM

I completely lost my train of thought though...

Whewt22 · 08-13-2008, 02:37 AM

Well I will start off I guess.
As I was saying I think it just breaks down the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami/Soul. I don't think it creates the existance of the shinigami in a hollow and a hollow in a shinigami.
That has to exist previously..

""so basically imo, an arrancar is a hollowized soul, thats fought off the control of the "evil hollowness" (im coining that term, its official now, E.H. if you will)" - Balling

"Makes all the sense in the world, thanks.
So we can say, that the souls fought off their hollow side, and basically became a new soul but with the strength and abilites they had as a hollow. With that spiritual pressure and strength, they were able to manafest a zanpaktou. ( Transformation caused by the hogyoku)
Maybe, when they conquered their hollow side (hogyoku did it for them), it sealed it away in their zanpaktou, kinda like the Vizard sealed it away in a mask. Hinted at by taking their previous form once they release their zanpaktou." - Whewt

Balling like a fool · 08-13-2008, 02:50 AM

oh the E.H.! I remember that lol.

ok, so the hogekyou fights off the EH, if it is present, allowing it to access shinigami powers, hence, removing the "hate" barrier.

the barrier in a shinigami's case, is the lack of the amount of "hate" to access hollow powers
so the opposite of this would be, the hogekyou fights off the G.S. (good shinigaminess).
well, that sounds ridiculous, so i think its more likely that, rather than removing the good qualities, the best way to balance the good/evil and balance things out, "removing the barrier", would be to add an inner hollow, an alternate personality with the hatred and bitterness necessary to access hollow abilities.

Whewt22 · 08-13-2008, 02:52 AM

I guess its all a matter of opinion at the moment, but I believe we should go back and look into it a little more before we say anything else.

vezryl · 08-13-2008, 02:55 AM

If I may interrupt. I don't think there's a difference between what a shinigami and a hollow actually is.
Sure they have cosmetic differences and slight differences in the techniques they use but the main difference is that a hollow can take off its mask to become more powerful while a shinigami can release their zanpakutou to do the same.

Instead of thinking about Hollow and Shinigami as two different things we should consider them as both the same thing but manipulating the same power in a different way. If I have a swimming pool which has steps on one side and a diving board on the other, but a barrier down the middle, I have two different ways to access that pool, but once I'm in I can't get to the other side unless we take away the barrier.

Essentially the Hollow and Shinigami are each side of the pool and the means of accessing it. Two different ways to access the same pool.

Whewt22 · 08-13-2008, 02:57 AM

Yep, I stand corrected.
Bleach 175 page 12 | One Manga

And no, you can't interrupt, go away! Just kidding, nice to see you around again.

Whewt22 · 08-13-2008, 03:08 AM

I guess that surfaces a whole new discussion though.

That suggests that the manafestation of a hollow is not needed, you simply just tap into that power. Does he not have a mask?

Balling like a fool · 08-13-2008, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vezryl

If I may interrupt. I don't think there's a difference between what a shinigami and a hollow actually is.
Sure they have cosmetic differences and slight differences in the techniques they use but the main difference is that a hollow can take off its mask to become more powerful while a shinigami can release their zanpakutou to do the same.

Instead of thinking about Hollow and Shinigami as two different things we should consider them as both the same thing but manipulating the same power in a different way. If I have a swimming pool which has steps on one side and a diving board on the other, but a barrier down the middle, I have two different ways to access that pool, but once I'm in I can't get to the other side unless we take away the barrier.

Essentially the Hollow and Shinigami are each side of the pool and the means of accessing it. Two different ways to access the same pool.

this is a good analogy, but on the vizard side of the pool, we have an extra swimmer, an "inner hollow" that cant be accounted for, unless we assume that arrancar have an "inner shinigami"

which i think is likely, in the form of a zanpakuto.

vezryl · 08-13-2008, 03:11 AM

This is one that definately requires more information. There's multiple factors we have little to no knowledge upon so any theory that we create will have so many holes in it there'll be virtually no evidence to say "It's right....honest!".

We know that there's a barrier between hollow and shinigami powers.
We know that Urahara made an object that can dissolve the barrier.
We know that one can dissolve the barrier from either the Shinigami side OR the Hollow side.

But that's about all.

08-13-2008, 02:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
Whewt22 Fuzz Lightyear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,740 Blog Entries: 20	How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. May contain spoilers. Our first subject of discussion is the Hogyoku. Balling continue here! __________________ She completes my Equation. Wakka wakka, who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

08-13-2008, 02:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Balling like a fool Swag Boogieboarding Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: e=(o(-_-)=o o ooooOOO(+) Posts: 19,980 Blog Entries: 110	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. I completely lost my train of thought though... __________________

08-13-2008, 02:37 AM	#3 (permalink)
Whewt22 Fuzz Lightyear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,740 Blog Entries: 20	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. Well I will start off I guess. As I was saying I think it just breaks down the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami/Soul. I don't think it creates the existance of the shinigami in a hollow and a hollow in a shinigami. That has to exist previously.. ""so basically imo, an arrancar is a hollowized soul, thats fought off the control of the "evil hollowness" (im coining that term, its official now, E.H. if you will)" - Balling "Makes all the sense in the world, thanks. So we can say, that the souls fought off their hollow side, and basically became a new soul but with the strength and abilites they had as a hollow. With that spiritual pressure and strength, they were able to manafest a zanpaktou. ( Transformation caused by the hogyoku) Maybe, when they conquered their hollow side (hogyoku did it for them), it sealed it away in their zanpaktou, kinda like the Vizard sealed it away in a mask. Hinted at by taking their previous form once they release their zanpaktou." - Whewt __________________ She completes my Equation. Wakka wakka, who wants to hear a funny ass joke? Last edited by Whewt22; 08-13-2008 at 02:42 AM.

08-13-2008, 02:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Balling like a fool Swag Boogieboarding Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: e=(o(-_-)=o o ooooOOO(+) Posts: 19,980 Blog Entries: 110	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. oh the E.H.! I remember that lol. ok, so the hogekyou fights off the EH, if it is present, allowing it to access shinigami powers, hence, removing the "hate" barrier. the barrier in a shinigami's case, is the lack of the amount of "hate" to access hollow powers so the opposite of this would be, the hogekyou fights off the G.S. (good shinigaminess). well, that sounds ridiculous, so i think its more likely that, rather than removing the good qualities, the best way to balance the good/evil and balance things out, "removing the barrier", would be to add an inner hollow, an alternate personality with the hatred and bitterness necessary to access hollow abilities. __________________ Last edited by Balling like a fool; 08-13-2008 at 02:53 AM.

08-13-2008, 02:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
Whewt22 Fuzz Lightyear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,740 Blog Entries: 20	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. I guess its all a matter of opinion at the moment, but I believe we should go back and look into it a little more before we say anything else. __________________ She completes my Equation. Wakka wakka, who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

08-13-2008, 02:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
vezryl Limping Samurai Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 393 Blog Entries: 8	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. If I may interrupt. I don't think there's a difference between what a shinigami and a hollow actually is. Sure they have cosmetic differences and slight differences in the techniques they use but the main difference is that a hollow can take off its mask to become more powerful while a shinigami can release their zanpakutou to do the same. Instead of thinking about Hollow and Shinigami as two different things we should consider them as both the same thing but manipulating the same power in a different way. If I have a swimming pool which has steps on one side and a diving board on the other, but a barrier down the middle, I have two different ways to access that pool, but once I'm in I can't get to the other side unless we take away the barrier. Essentially the Hollow and Shinigami are each side of the pool and the means of accessing it. Two different ways to access the same pool.

08-13-2008, 02:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
Whewt22 Fuzz Lightyear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,740 Blog Entries: 20	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. Yep, I stand corrected. Bleach 175 page 12 \| One Manga And no, you can't interrupt, go away! Just kidding, nice to see you around again. __________________ She completes my Equation. Wakka wakka, who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

08-13-2008, 03:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
Whewt22 Fuzz Lightyear Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,740 Blog Entries: 20	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. I guess that surfaces a whole new discussion though. That suggests that the manafestation of a hollow is not needed, you simply just tap into that power. Does he not have a mask? __________________ She completes my Equation. Wakka wakka, who wants to hear a funny ass joke?

08-13-2008, 03:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
vezryl Limping Samurai Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 393 Blog Entries: 8	Re: How: The Vizard and Espada, came into existance discussion. This is one that definately requires more information. There's multiple factors we have little to no knowledge upon so any theory that we create will have so many holes in it there'll be virtually no evidence to say "It's right....honest!". We know that there's a barrier between hollow and shinigami powers. We know that Urahara made an object that can dissolve the barrier. We know that one can dissolve the barrier from either the Shinigami side OR the Hollow side. But that's about all.

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